Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture Pad

Comments specifically about gestures and mouse actions - on any FW product.

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Re: Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture

Postby The00Dustin » 25 Jul 2014, 20:43

Clearly you need to order some pure caffeine powder and sprinkle it on the surface.
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Re: Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture

Postby David.P » 28 Jul 2014, 09:57

:)

I swear that the feature from hell just now struck me after the following gesture sequence:

1.) Selecting some text in Word with the single finger point/drag gesture (that double-clicks, holds and enables drag-selecting afterwards),
2.) Copying the selected text with the two finger copy gesture (quick thumb+index finger down+up again),
3.) Quickly moving the cursor over to another Word document with the middle+ring finger pointing gesture, and
4.) at the cursor target, additionally (to middle+ring finger) putting down+up again the index finger in order to click.

--> at #4, the pad thinks the (right) index finger it is the (left) pinky, and does a right click instead of a left click.

Therefore it MUST have switched sides either at 3.) or at 4.), since #2 is probably THE one gesture that best distinguishes between left and right hand (actually, I use gesture #2 hundreds of times a day to set the pad back from erroneous left-hand recognition to right-hand recognition).

However, the misrecognition/side swap can't really have started at #4, since it is IMPOSSIBLE to fool the pad into thinking the index finger is the pinky (of the other hand) when inside the two-finger-pointing gesture. While inside the two-finger-pointing gesture, you can put the (right) index finger down such that the pad thinks it is a (right) thumb. But never such that it thinks it is a (left) pinky.

Thus, the erroneous switch from right to left hand recognition must have happened at the begin (or during) gesture #3 -- bl**dy simple middle+ring finger pointing!
since 2005 featuring
Triple Monitors Windows Desktop with Ethernet-to-VGA¹
Speech Input with NaturallySpeaking
iGesture Pad with Gesture Sound Feedback
Paperless Office with Remote Backup
Windows installed in SDRAM²
--
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²) deprecated by SSD
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Re: Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture

Postby The00Dustin » 28 Jul 2014, 11:16

Or, when you're tense and not specifically trying to fix the issue, your thumb curls and then number 2 could cause the problem. However, number 3 seems possible as well since it would make sense to detect which hand at the first touch of each gesture (when there is not currently anything else touching). I reviewed the thread and have a few more thoughts...

First, I don't believe you ever indicated which hand you are using or where the pad is located in relation to that hand in this thread.

Second, when we discussed how four finger scrolling couldn't cause it, we didn't confirm what your four finger gesture for the opposite hand was set to (if they were both scroll, it could switch and may still scroll).

Third, I asked about your pinky, but technically, some people have a ring finger longer than their middle finger, and if it's even close, then my first suggestion (very early in this thread) about rotating the pad a bit might help. However, rotating the pad a bit might cause other gestures to cause the problem if it is actually related to your hand geometry.

Fourthly, I've seen a left click on a normal mouse act as a right-click, and this brings up a whole new problem I never even considered if you are using Windows. That is what I will now dub the "Sticky Keys Experience." I have experienced, ever since Windows XP, the occasional "sticking" of function keys (SHIFT, CTRL, ALT, WIN) even though the sticky keys accessibility option is disabled (or accessibility options are even uninstalled, using third party software to gut them out). I have learned to press each of the aforementioned keys on each side of the keyboard once anytime my system starts reacting erratically to mouse or keyboard inputs, and more often than not, it solves the problem. This has happened to me since WinXP on bare hardware, and seemed to happen more often when I had the TSLP. However, it also seems to happen more often with RDP sessions. I migrated our systems to RDP VDI at work, and now it happens to many of my users there. Changing keyboards doesn't help, although I have seen changing computers make it worse (at least one user swears it never happened to them until we changed computers more than a year after switching to RDP VDI).

Sadly, I suspect it would have eventually been possible to disable a hand or at least the auto hand switching feature if FingerWorks had continued on instead of being bought out, then you would be able to rule my fourth thought out by preventing the pad from causing the problem you think you're seeing.
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Re: Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture

Postby David.P » 28 Jul 2014, 16:06

Thanks Dustin, will come back to you as soon as I can take the time needed to think about and comment on all of your additional, important inputs.

Cheers David.P
since 2005 featuring
Triple Monitors Windows Desktop with Ethernet-to-VGA¹
Speech Input with NaturallySpeaking
iGesture Pad with Gesture Sound Feedback
Paperless Office with Remote Backup
Windows installed in SDRAM²
--
¹) deprecated by AMD Eyefinity
²) deprecated by SSD
David.P
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Re: Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture

Postby David.P » 29 Jul 2014, 08:28

Thanks for your inputs Dustin,

The00Dustin wrote:Or, when you're tense and not specifically trying to fix the issue, your thumb curls and then number 2 could cause the problem.

For two reasons, I don't think #2 can be the cause for the problem. First the hand swap happens thousands of times after scrolling (with four fingers), but this was the first time I seemed to notice it happening after copying (with gesture #2). Second, the thumb+index finger copy gesture #2 must be one of the most stable and most distinguishable gestures between left and right hand. I cant imagine curling my fingers with this gesture in way so creepy such that it looks like doing it left-handed to the pad.

However, number 3 seems possible as well since it would make sense to detect which hand at the first touch of each gesture (when there is not currently anything else touching). I reviewed the thread and have a few more thoughts...

First, I don't believe you ever indicated which hand you are using or where the pad is located in relation to that hand in this thread.

That's correct. Actually I am using the right hand, and the pad is located exactly where otherwise the mouse would be.

Second, when we discussed how four finger scrolling couldn't cause it, we didn't confirm what your four finger gesture for the opposite hand was set to (if they were both scroll, it could switch and may still scroll).

That's an interesting one. Are you sure that I can set, for example, the four finger gesture different for left and right hands? I have never seen a setting like this in the gesture editor. Actually, I'm pretty sure that every gesture setting is valid for both hands, at least if using the iGesture pad, hardware-wise.

Third, I asked about your pinky, but technically, some people have a ring finger longer than their middle finger, and if it's even close, then my first suggestion (very early in this thread) about rotating the pad a bit might help. However, rotating the pad a bit might cause other gestures to cause the problem if it is actually related to your hand geometry.

I have tried rotating the pad many times already, but not really with much success. My ring finger is actually a little longer than my index finger, but both ring and index finger are shorter than the middle finger.

Fourthly, I've seen a left click on a normal mouse act as a right-click, and this brings up a whole new problem I never even considered if you are using Windows. That is what I will now dub the "Sticky Keys Experience." I have experienced, ever since Windows XP, the occasional "sticking" of function keys (SHIFT, CTRL, ALT, WIN) even though the sticky keys accessibility option is disabled (or accessibility options are even uninstalled, using third party software to gut them out). I have learned to press each of the aforementioned keys on each side of the keyboard once anytime my system starts reacting erratically to mouse or keyboard inputs, and more often than not, it solves the problem. This has happened to me since WinXP on bare hardware, and seemed to happen more often when I had the TSLP. However, it also seems to happen more often with RDP sessions. I migrated our systems to RDP VDI at work, and now it happens to many of my users there. Changing keyboards doesn't help, although I have seen changing computers make it worse (at least one user swears it never happened to them until we changed computers more than a year after switching to RDP VDI).

Yes, I see the sticky keys experience as well from time to time (like a couple of times a week). Most of the times, it seems to be the shift key getting stuck. However, I have never experienced a conventional mouse making a right click on pressing the left key. Same with the iGesture pad: It has never made a right click after only pointing and (left-)clicking. The hand swap only happens after hastily changing from a previous gesture to the two fingers pointing and clicking gesture. It is literally as if you talk with someone and you are being carried away by a feeling (or fatigue, or hastiness, or you're getting drunk) and suddenly they look funny at you, or they tell you that they didn't understand what you were saying because it was too inarticulate or slurry.

Sadly, I suspect it would have eventually been possible to disable a hand or at least the auto hand switching feature if FingerWorks had continued on instead of being bought out, then you would be able to rule my fourth thought out by preventing the pad from causing the problem you think you're seeing.

That's true. I remember even having tried to put the "swap hands" function of the pad into certain gestures as additional standard function, however somehow it didn't work out.
since 2005 featuring
Triple Monitors Windows Desktop with Ethernet-to-VGA¹
Speech Input with NaturallySpeaking
iGesture Pad with Gesture Sound Feedback
Paperless Office with Remote Backup
Windows installed in SDRAM²
--
¹) deprecated by AMD Eyefinity
²) deprecated by SSD
David.P
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Posts: 50
Joined: 23 Jul 2005, 18:59

Re: Annoying automatic left/right hand recognition, iGesture

Postby The00Dustin » 29 Jul 2014, 11:19

Regarding the left vs right-hand, I'm not sure because I've never had a single pad, only a dual-pad keyboard. You could definitely set each pad to have a specific action for a specific gesture on the keyboards, and I assumed you could do it on the single pad after mis-remembering what you had said about it would not scroll (you said if it thought your pinky was a thumb, and I remembered if it switched hands).

Regarding the sticky keys experience, I can't make the keys cause a left click to equal a right on purpose, and I know it is possible on a Mac, so part of me feels like I'm mixing OSes in my head. However, part of me swears I've experienced it happening without me telling it to on Windows and it has driven me nuts. However, I also sometimes see the ability to drag disappear in Windows, so perhaps there is another experience affecting my mouse that I haven't diagnosed/decoded yet.

Sadly, I'm out of ideas for the moment, but hopefully additional discussion will eventually reveal more. Did you only discover the mousing gesture as a possible culprit after switching to five-finger scrolling, or have you not switched yet? Can you change mousing algorithms on single-pads (on the keyboards, default mousing was not middle+ring fingers)? If you can't (or don't) set gestures different for each hand, and you can learn to use mousing where you lift your fingers and the click gesture is a separate action, it may not matter which hand the pad thinks you're using. That's far from ideal, because the middle-ring finger mousing with the ability to left, right, and middle-click is great, but if it's the only place where you can experience problems when the gesture pad detects which hand you are using, then eliminating it may be worth the drawbacks.
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