Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby folkie » 23 Jul 2012, 07:36

Hi,

i found a way to manage my TouchStream with a Win XP VM in VMWare Fusion 4 on my Macbook Pro.
Just follow this KB article: http://kb.vmware.com/selfservice/microsites/search.do?cmd=displayKC&docType=kc&docTypeID=DT_KB_1_1&externalId=1003418

When you start your VM afterwards your Fingerworks device shows up in the standard USB devices menu. When you connect it, it will be recognized by the MultiTouch Utilities (but you can't use it on your host until you disconnect it again).
The transfer to the device might fail the first time while the driver for the DFU mode is installed. Just reconnect your Fingerworks device and everything works fine.

HTH
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby ivanw » 26 Jul 2012, 18:19

Smart move, thanks.

Maybe an alternate solution to the disconnect-reconnect operation, at least under MS-Windows, could be going through:

- Computer ... Manage ... Device Manager ... Action - Scan for hardware changes

- And if this is not enough: Disable-Enable the related USB Entry

...while tweaking your Network adapter TCP params, this can spare you the recommended reboots!
...well, that's if you had a chance to ID you TS ;) ... I could not, it must be one of those "USB Composite Device" that won't let you do this :(
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 28 Oct 2013, 21:25

Hey all,
I'm currently setting up a VirtualBox installation using Windows XP, with the explicit purpose of creating a FingerWorks maintenance image. Send me a PM if you're interested.

Regards,
Torben
Last edited by The00Dustin on 29 Oct 2013, 10:58, edited 1 time in total.
Reason: fixed url tag
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby petercooperjr » 06 Nov 2013, 17:56

It's all Java based under the hood, isn't it? So it should be possible to get working on a Linux VM Image (which would avoid licensing issues) or repackage it for the newest versions of Windows & Mac. I've been meaning to figure it out, but haven't found the time to do so yet.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 06 Nov 2013, 18:50

Yes you're right, it is "just" Java. But the problem is that the FingerWorks software was written to work on a (now) very old Java version, so the software won't run on modern Java's anymore. What's worse, the old (FW-compatible) Java won't run on newer OS versions like WinVista, Win7, and newer Linux kernels (including newer Mac OSX versions). This is why we need to run it on either Windows XP, or on a very old Linux version. There was an old Knoppix distro mentioned earlier (you could search the forum for it) but I haven't been able to find a download of that to install. If you can help with this, it would be great!
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby buserror » 06 Apr 2014, 10:01

PM sent. thanks for that, thats a VM image I shall treasure :-)
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby eve » 05 May 2014, 12:15

nomaded wrote:
David.P wrote:What I also tried with no success: Extracted all files in the Fingerworks software package, and then directed Windows Hardware recognition to the driver *.inf file (\setupfw160\Resource1\C_\dk\jusb\bin\wxp\inf\fingerworks.inf)

But Windows 7 complained that this is not a 64-bit driver....

It seems that it is generally impossible to install 32bit drivers into 64bit Windows (there seems to be not even a compatibility mode for drivers, only for programs).


The real problem is that the Multitouch Utilities was written with a specific version of Java in mind. At this point, that version of Java is no longer supported by Windows 7 (and OS X 10.6 and later). Specifically, the problem is the Java USB driver from what I remember when this problem initially came up a few years ago. Your best bet is to get XP or 2000 working in VirtualBox.

OS X 10.7 and up; the Multitouch Utilities work fine in Snow Leopard (10.6)
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 05 May 2014, 12:26

I'm reminding myself that I wanted to publish something about a WinXP disk image for this purpose. I got some new infrastructure that can help me, so I hope to deliver something soonish!
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 08 Jun 2014, 16:55

I have a VM set up with Windows XP. How do I get the correct version of Java to get the utilities working?
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby dongadoy » 13 Jun 2014, 13:27

I always install Java that is included with the Touchstream utilities. Maybe it's included in the package on this site:
viewtopic.php?f=23&t=2821
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 10 Oct 2014, 20:12

Ok, I have a OracleBox VM running with a Windows XP image. I can map my keyboard through to the VM and see it in the Multitouch utilities. But I have multiple issues:

1) The only version of the utilities I can find which includes Java is V1.5.3. This runs and can locate my keyboard, but this runs V1.6 of the firmware.
2) If I try and install V1.6 from the download link on this site it complains that it 'Could not find a Java VM to load'.
3) If I use the utilities to upgrade the firmware it complains that the keyboard is running a more recent version (I stop at this point).
4) Trying to change the layout in feature selector does nothing.
5) Trying to change the layout in the My Gesture Editor using 'Transfer to device' causes issues with USB and the VM when the device resets. The process fails - not sure what to do about this.

So, I am stuck. I want to change the layout of the DVORAK keyboard I purchased back to DVORAK from QWERTY, which it came with. Nothing has worked so far.

How can I get the V1.6 utilities installed? If I can do this, is it likely to fix the issues I am seeing trying to change the layout using V1.5.3 with a keyboard with V1.6 firmware?
If I can't get V1.6 installed, can I use V1.5.3 to change my layout? If so, how do I handle the reboot issue?

One slight concern is that this is the first time I have been able to run the diagnostics on this keyboard and it has a block of permanent high/noisy sensors in the top left quadrant. A bit worrying....
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 10 Oct 2014, 20:25

Max wrote:How can I get the V1.6 utilities installed?

Since we don't have v1.6 including Java, I would first install v1.53 including Java and then install v1.60 excluding Java afterward. You should end up with the new FW version and the Java version from the previous FW package. Have you tried that? Did it work? (Why not?)

Max wrote:I want to change the layout of the DVORAK keyboard I purchased back to DVORAK from QWERTY

I seem to remember that there's some kind of gesture built-in for this (but perhaps it's a gesture to swap between Mac&Windows style, or something else). Do you have the reference material? Try searching the downloads, too (look in our download section!). I'm sorry I can't give you precise information but I have limited resources right now.

Max wrote:One slight concern is that this is the first time I have been able to run the diagnostics on this keyboard and it has a block of permanent high/noisy sensors in the top left quadrant. A bit worrying....

Yes, that's worrying. It could be a sign that the ribbon connector is either getting worn, or that it's no longer properly attached at both ends. That's likely the best you can hope for because it's fixable. The alternative would be a partially damaged sensor board, which can't be repaired now that FW is no longer in business :-(
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby The00Dustin » 13 Oct 2014, 11:27

TorbenGB wrote:
Max wrote:I want to change the layout of the DVORAK keyboard I purchased back to DVORAK from QWERTY
I seem to remember that there's some kind of gesture built-in for this (but perhaps it's a gesture to swap between Mac&Windows style, or something else). Do you have the reference material? Try searching the downloads, too (look in our download section!). I'm sorry I can't give you precise information but I have limited resources right now.
IIRC, a four corner touch will give you some options, including the ability to change the layout. I think you want to be in a program like notepad and touch all four corners a once (the left two corners of the right pad and the right two corners of the right pad). This should cause the keyboard to type a prompt. If it does, I'm not sure the prompt tells you what your options are, but I think v switches to dvorak (may be a sub-option, not sure). Beyond that, I really don't remember exactly how it works, so hopefully it's hitting v, and then the keyboard reboots. If that's not it, maybe q will quit (remember it would then be the dvorak q and not the qwerty q). Beyond that, because the menu does other things, I recommend unplugging as opposed to hitting other random keys.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 13 Oct 2014, 12:23

Our download center (download/) has this PDF (download/TouchStreamBooklet.pdf and the four-corner touch is described on pages 16-19: four-corner touch + Shift-V switches to Dvorak, and four-corner + q gives you Qwerty. And yes, do this in Notepad or some other editor so you can see the confirmation message that the keyboard delivers.

There are many, many other choices after the four-corner touch, so be sure to check the manual when you try this out.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 14 Oct 2014, 13:43

Thanks for all the help. I have tried the four corner touch and setting the keboard to DVORAK. It claims it has changed the layout, but the keyboard mapping does not change (it remains mapped go QWERTY). Does this work for anyone else?

Also, I am unable to install the V1.6 utilities, even if I have a working version of Java installed (as part of the successful install of the V1.5.3 utilities). The installer quits (so I can't copy across the Java runtime to the V1.6 files). I therefore need to find a standalone version of Java that will satisfy the V1.6 installer. Very annoying.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 14 Oct 2014, 13:44

Ah, there is an old Java archive, so perhaps this might work:

http://www.oracle.com/technetwork/java/ ... 39210.html
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 14 Oct 2014, 13:54

Max wrote:I need to find a standalone version of Java that will satisfy the V1.6 installer. Very annoying.

Ugh, annoying :-/ Please report back when you get it to work, so that we can add that Java installer to our download page - for the benefit of other users that will follow your steps.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby The00Dustin » 14 Oct 2014, 14:15

Max wrote:Thanks for all the help. I have tried the four corner touch and setting the keboard to DVORAK. It claims it has changed the layout, but the keyboard mapping does not change (it remains mapped go QWERTY). Does this work for anyone else?
It worked for me, but that was 10 years ago. I haven't had a TSLP in a long time, and I don't remember the procedure or experience that well anymore.
Max wrote:Also, I am unable to install the V1.6 utilities, even if I have a working version of Java installed (as part of the successful install of the V1.5.3 utilities). The installer quits (so I can't copy across the Java runtime to the V1.6 files). I therefore need to find a standalone version of Java that will satisfy the V1.6 installer. Very annoying.
I'm not sure how technical you are, and I can't walk you through the steps I used to get the software running on Win7 without the old version of Java (IIRC, it didn't work for communicating with the keyboard, but it functioned in Java and allowed me to edit/view layouts). I know you're running XP in a VM, so totally different, but getting java applications to run doesn't change much from OS to OS. You might search the forums if you haven't already in case I posted my experience. Alternatively, if I didn't post or you think you can figure it out, you could try to extract from the installer with a program like 7-zip. I'm not sure the installer can be extracted from so easily, but it wouldn't surprise me, and that might allow you to do what you want to do.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 14 Oct 2014, 21:49

Progress, but still no good.

I can install V1.6 of the Fingerworks utilities if I download the JRE6 from Oracle. During the install I can select the JRE from the 1.5.3 install. I can then run the utils. However, I still cannot apply changes to the keyboard because of the USB issue when the keyboard is rebooted. So, no go. I think the VM is the issue here. I need to install XP on a real system.

Note, using the four finger gesture allows me to switch to QWERAK. However, selecting DVORAK just gives me QWERTY. Odd.

So, still stuck. My only option is to install XP onto a real hard disk and then repeat.

Thanks once again.

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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 14 Oct 2014, 22:04

You're so close! I'm sure you can make it work without having to dig up a separate physical computer:
Max wrote:cannot apply changes to the keyboard because of the USB issue when the keyboard is rebooted

The FW keyboard identifies as one device in normal operation but as another one while it's being programmed. So the virtual machine manager needs to know about *two different* FingerWorks devices!

I don't remember the specifics (so little spare time when you've got two small kids!) but I did make exactly this work using Sun VirtualBox (running WinXP on a Win7 machine). See if you can get it to report how the keyboard identifies while it's being programmed, and add that as a second USB device.

(If all else fails, and you really need a separate computer, here's a little trick that might work for you: if you have a desktop computer, install a second hard drive in that and then, while the BIOS starts, hit F8 to select which drive to boot from. It's a nice way to have a dual-boot machine without having to mess with actually configuring any dual-booting boot records and whatnot.)
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 31 Oct 2014, 22:14

The problem is that when the FW software reprograms the device it disappears from the VM (goes into DFU mode). The VM software can see this USB device but it cannot map it to the VM OS, it says it's busy. The FW software on the VM then times out because it never gets to detect the keyboard. I've now given up on the VM route. My other problem is that I'm trying to install XP on a real machine here, but the hardware has moved on and they all blue screen! Beware everyone, that new motherboard or HDD might not work with XP any more.

Totally get the no time thing. I have a 3 month old daughter and I no longer have any ambition for achieving anything once I get home!
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 31 Oct 2014, 22:29

Max wrote:device it disappears from the VM (goes into DFU mode). The VM software can see this USB device but it cannot map it to the VM OS, it says it's busy.
Hmm, I vaguely remember running WinXP in some virtualization tool (wasn't Sun VirtualBox) on Win7 and I noticed this effect too -- the FW device presents itself as a different device when in DFU mode and I seem to remember (incorrectly?!?) that I was able to map both devices to the virtual machine so XP could reprogram it. But it's years ago.

Max wrote:I have a 3 month old daughter and I no longer have any ambition for achieving anything once I get home!
Hey congrats! (Come join us new parents over here.) Your ambition level is very wise! That took me too long to realize for myself.
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 23 Nov 2014, 20:48

TorbenGB wrote:
Max wrote:device it disappears from the VM (goes into DFU mode). The VM software can see this USB device but it cannot map it to the VM OS, it says it's busy.
Hmm, I vaguely remember running WinXP in some virtualization tool (wasn't Sun VirtualBox) on Win7 and I noticed this effect too -- the FW device presents itself as a different device when in DFU mode and I seem to remember (incorrectly?!?) that I was able to map both devices to the virtual machine so XP could reprogram it. But it's years ago.


Right, after about 15 attempts to get Windows XP installed on current hardware I finally managed to do it. I had a number of issues that I needed to overcome and it's a reminder that getting old software running on a old machine outside a VM can be an issue.

For the record the main issue was trying to install on a system with SATA and an SSD. This is not supported by the standard XP installation CD which will blue screen (and did so on 3 different PCs). I needed to do two things to overcome this (and still hit 2 other issues):

[1] Slipstream Windows XP SP3 into my installation CD. I followed the following guide, which was great. However, I didn't get a functioning OS when I also slipstreamed the updates and patches as advised in the guide. In the end I had to just splipstream SP3.

http://www.expertreviews.co.uk/software ... er-updates

[2] Set the HDD mode in the BIOS to IDE. NB you have to remember to put this back when you put your original HDD back in.

[3] On one install I had issues with using the Touchstream and had to have a regular USB keyboard plugged in to get past the previous OS check.

[4] I also had issues on the working install with files not being found during the install. When this happens you can use Shift+F12 (or F10?) to bring up a cmd prompt which will help you identify the drive letter of your install disc/image. You then have to keep pasting in the correct drive letter and path to the install folder for each file load failure.

Once I finally got the install done I could run the Touchstream utilities fine and have now switched the keyboard into DVORAK. Hope this helps others.

I have a follow up question though. Can you extract the configuration of a keyboard attached to a PC using the utilities and then apply it to another keyboard? I can't find a copy of my configuration files for my other DVORAK touchstream, which is quite heavily customized.

Thanks for everyone's help.

TorbenGB wrote:
Max wrote:I have a 3 month old daughter and I no longer have any ambition for achieving anything once I get home!
Hey congrats! (Come join us new parents over here.) Your ambition level is very wise! That took me too long to realize for myself.


Thanks for the link. It's the most amazing experience but also very full on!

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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby TorbenGB » 24 Nov 2014, 14:04

Max wrote:Can you extract the configuration of a keyboard attached to a PC using the utilities and then apply it to another keyboard?

Sorry - this is a one-way street :? You can only upload your XML file to the keyboard, but I've never heard of any method to download it back to the computer. That would be very useful!
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Re: Fully working FingerWorks software in a virtual machine

Postby Max » 24 Nov 2014, 14:47

That's a shame.
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