.....67% chance it's Apple... because...

Facts, rumors, speculations about the past, present and future of FingerWorks.

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.....67% chance it's Apple... because...

Postby bbotje » 10 Jul 2005, 00:40

Technology is great. No single doubt.
Guess Fingerworks is too small/intellectual to produce and market efficient and market with profit. The makers are bright engineers rather than marketeers.
(A purple keybooard, the typography on the mini... com'on)

Problem is: Learning curve / acceptation, distribution flaky, in europe you get order them at ergo shops, not a very hip or mainstream outlet. And the price is high, no ads, no decent PR, and most important: never saw a shop that offered a test ride - who spends so many bucks for nice but 'scary' avant garde stuff you can't try first?

We do - not the crowd. Remember Apple who had 'Windows' in 1984 but nobody bought Apples. A decade later Gates Windows came and the crowd said, look at that, isn't that brilliant. Yeah, duh!

Solution: a big partner with a feel for new tech. Apple already implemented 2 finger trackpad scrolling (horizontal and vertical) on new generation PB books. Jobs LOVES stuff like this. If I were him: Start with a three finger trackpad setup, 5 simple much used gestures or so and let the consumers choose if they need more.

Another advantage: Sell as Bundled extra or built in hard&software, so costs drop for manufacterer and buyer. Biggest Profits are made with lots (LOTS) of smaller margins. Works great.

Imagine a bigger touchdrawerpad sliding out of your Powerbook... I hope the Fingerworks Inventors get a fair share.

We'll see more of this technology. For sure. No moving parts, your fingers and your own personal chords, always a fit.

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Postby kirasantucci » 11 Jul 2005, 15:06

I'm not a Mac user, but I have to say, Apple does have an eye for really cool peripherals. They always seem to be on the cutting edge in that area and always with such beautiful product design. I'd be perfectly happy to hear that Apple had it (so long as they weren't just killing it), esspecially with the new switch in Mac that means increased cross platform work. I hope it is Apple and if they're the ones and are monitoring this board (which I assume the person how bought FW is, as its only logical), I can say they have no reason to hide. While I'm hurt at the poor service in transition, I'd rather know what going on.

It does really sound like something Jobs would be all over, doesn't it?
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Postby ken gray » 11 Jul 2005, 17:00

well, if it was apple, they should fly us all in for the big announcement!!

PS: we would also get those really nice gift-bags that include but not limited to:
    the new flag-ship product that has the FW stuff built into it
    T-shirt with the fancy logo they came up with for the devices that have the FW tech in it
    New Silver Dvorak keyboard
    Copy of the new Mac-Intel OS
    Pens, Pens, Pens!
    40gig iPod (well, lets not get greedy!)
    Product development positions with Apple ($120k/year salary)
    and finally 8 little words...




    STOCK OPITONS, STOCK OPITONS, STOCK OPITONS, STOCK OPITONS
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Postby bradheintz » 11 Jul 2005, 20:23

kirasantucci wrote:I hope it is Apple and if they're the ones and are monitoring this board (which I assume the person how bought FW is, as its only logical)...


Say, Torben - checked the server logs lately? :wink:
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Postby buserror » 12 Jul 2005, 10:42

I was the one hinting at apple to start with in the old forum, it's definitly their style. Secrecy (read gag orders) they use absolutly all the time.
And they've been behaving more and more like microsoft too : buying out stuff (or using the open source stuff) renaming it then marketing as "innovative".. huhu.

Mind you, I'm a apple developer since even before the mac existed, but given the current trend, I wonder how long I will kept being one...
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Re: .....67% chance it's Apple... because...

Postby moof » 12 Jul 2005, 22:15

bbotje wrote:Imagine a bigger touchdrawerpad sliding out of your Powerbook... I hope the Fingerworks Inventors get a fair share.


Or... imagine a PowerBook with a giant TouchStream covering the entire surface - no traditional keyboard/trackpad, just a huge gesture pad with keys printed on it. This would be awesome! I'd buy it in a minute!
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Postby TorbenGB » 13 Jul 2005, 09:07

bradheintz wrote:Say, Torben - checked the server logs lately? :wink:

Nope, who cares :wink: Besides, our memberlist has exactly 100 members right now, and then add the lurkers that aren't actively participating. If one of those sits in Cupertino, the logs wouldn't reveal it. But, on the other hand, I've yet to receive a subpoena to pull this site down, so I'd think they haven't spotted us yet. Which only means that they haven't looked, because it sure is easy to find.
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Postby ken gray » 13 Jul 2005, 13:44

I've yet to receive a subpoena

Probably because they are trying to find your address in Germany :lol:

BTW: if any rep from the new company is reading this, I'd settle for the 20 gig ipod :wink:
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Postby kirasantucci » 13 Jul 2005, 15:31

Pens! I want pretty pens!!! With glitter!!!*giggles*

Actually I'd just really like my poor LP fixed. :( *hugs it*

Can they legally tell you to take this site down? I mean this is just a personal club of computer users. I can't think of any grounds they could use. We're not doing anything wrong. *shrugs*
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Postby mboeing » 13 Jul 2005, 16:32

ken gray wrote:BTW: if any rep from the new company is reading this, I'd settle for the 20 gig ipod :wink:


Nah, have that already. I would like them to give me the new 60G iPod with color display. :D
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Postby The00Dustin » 14 Jul 2005, 02:24

Actually, the guys that really bought out Fingerworks are reading this board constantly and laughing it up because we all think it is Apple. Their plan to take over the world is entering stage two, and it's all working so brilliantly! *hides with touchstream*

kirasantucci, I don't remember reading anything about your problems... What is wrong with your LP?
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Postby TorbenGB » 14 Jul 2005, 08:53

kirasantucci wrote:Can they legally tell you to take this site down? I mean this is just a personal club of computer users. I can't think of any grounds they could use. We're not doing anything wrong. *shrugs*

Depends, I guess, but "not doing anything wrong" doesn't mean it's not against some law or other... We've all heard stories of big American companies forcing some poor soul to cease-and-desist. Keep in mind that we fairly much are the only online reference to FW stuff and if somebody owns the FW rights then that's one point against us if they feel like it.

We're also using the "hand" logo and offering the software downloads without written permission. Another point against us.
Mind you, we DID ask for permission, but we never heard any reply. I've even asked FW for comments on this website in general without reply. So that's one point for us.

We are clearly a user community with the interest of supporting the product -- not any commercial interest. That's a point for us.
But we'll be more or less in competition against the new owner if they decide to make a new business of it. That's a point for them.

On the technical side, this is a website operated by a non-American, so they can't just come to me with their U.S. laws. Point for me.
But then again, it appears to be hosted on a U.S. server, which they may be able to shut down. Point for them.
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Postby Shawn_Milo » 14 Jul 2005, 18:33

I was talking to a friend of mine, and he made a very interesting comment. If it's Apple, or any publicly traded company, wouldn't the purchase have to be public?

He isn't a lawyer (and neither am I), but it's a good point -- you'd think it would have to be made public in some public filing within a fiscal quarter from the purchase.

Are there any lawyers out there who can shed some light on this? Or an SEC guy? ;-)
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Postby ken gray » 14 Jul 2005, 19:17

Heeeeeyyyyy.....remember when that anonymous guy posted about him working with FW and don't be surprised when a Chinese version shows up?

Have any of you actually "seen" a Chinese kb? they're like 2.5 feet long (0.76m)! I'll bet a nice pack of gestures and/or modifier gestures would make short work of that!!
hmmmmm.....
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Postby bbotje » 24 Aug 2005, 12:00

Just bought the very last minikeyboard in stock at a rsi specialized company - got a nice discount too, since they couldn't guarantee replacement anymore. I am very happy indeed. (Yes, they knew the FW products price were soaring at ebay, but didn't take advantage of me) Ofcourse I asked them what they knew about FW. Via their quite extensive network they heard that FW was bought by 'another' company which immediately discontinued the 'current' line of products. Rumours were the new party would (re)design a 'cheaper or simpler' line of products for less money, in the hope of selling much much more of them (my reseller feared less quality). His general opinion about the FW products was that (in Europe) they are used by a small audience (partly due to premium price and lots of people not knowing about the product). They sold a few hundred a year, mainly iGestures and the Touchstream). They mistakenly got a shipload of non returnable minikeyboards a few years ago (apparently FW was not that organised) and now he joked he wished he had gotten more since demand has quadrupled the past months - since die hards from all over the world (yes that's us!) are scouting the last ones. He also mentioned lots of users who users were very *very* enthousiast about FW and the only product with problems was the Touchstream, which foldability caused the 'wire bridge' to malfunction, he was recalling two or three units. So that's the latest FW gossip from this side of the ocean. Regards, BB.
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Postby rolfwind » 25 Aug 2005, 03:00

On one hand it so fits apple in a way.

But OTOH, what do they gain by buying the company and completely discontinuing the keyboards?

Or implementing a system like this in all Powerbooks? They're good but I don't think people would appreciate having their tactile feedback keyboards taken away just like that in any case (familiarity breeds fondness).

I hope it's Apple but not completely sure.
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Postby isaacs » 25 Aug 2005, 05:45

So check the logs, run an ip check on everyone that comes. See if someone from Apple or mitsu is visiting the site all the time :D 8) Catchem' red handed. LOL
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Postby Shawn_Milo » 25 Aug 2005, 13:06

I can think of a strong reason why it's not Apple. Apple is known for simplifying things. Fewer keyboard keys, easier interface, etc. No matter how much we all love our FingerWorks products, they present a learning curve, and trying to use the TouchStream when you're in a rush or already stressed just leads to more stress and frustration.

I don't think they're willing to put out an overpriced laptop with a built-in device which will cause a high rate of returned product.

Would I buy a PowerBook with a built-in TouchStream? In a second! But we're not like most people, and we're certainly not like any marketing department's view of "most people."

I really hope it is Apple, because they make quality products for people who "get it." Maybe it'll be a sideline, the way the sell iPods and such.
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I differ to beg

Postby grandPAW » 26 Aug 2005, 04:31

Shawn_Milo sez
PostPosted: Thu, 25 Aug 2005 12:06
"I can think of a strong reason why it's not Apple. Apple is known for simplifying things. Fewer keyboard keys, easier interface, etc. "

This is the very reason that I think it is Apple.

They've just released their multi-button mouse that has no right or left "buttons".

Only Apple could revel in releasing a keyboard without any keys!!! :P

Plus there's that whole trackpad gesturing thing... :wink:
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Postby Rqyteqto » 26 Aug 2005, 10:10

Frankly, that "gesturing" isn't much.

The biggest factor against Apple is if it was them, they could have just offered the Mac'n'Touch keyboard as an option for their notebooks, they wouldn't have to do a think except change the logos and I am pretty sure that could have been accomplished in less than two weeks.

Beyond that, why the secrecy thing, what does it accomplish? Not withstanding they had a perfect opportunity to introduce the new keyboards and didn't. Like I said, those were ready to go as is. And, frankly, there's nothing to gain for them to cease production of the TS and other boards.

I still feel MERL is the best bet. They have something that would be compromised by Fingerworks US oatents, indeed, they have present and on-going conflicts with those patents with DiamondTouch installations in over 100 institutions across the country.
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Postby VaderPi » 29 Aug 2005, 15:55

Beyond that, why the secrecy thing, what does it accomplish? Not withstanding they had a perfect opportunity to introduce the new keyboards and didn't. Like I said, those were ready to go as is. And, frankly, there's nothing to gain for them to cease production of the TS and other boards.


And what would MERL gain by stopping production. The points that you raise really do not make any sense regardless of who bought them, unless the goal was to get the FingerWorks products off the market.
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Postby bbotje » 29 Aug 2005, 16:07

I guess that stopping the recent production line means possibly two things:

Applying the technology in your own products/hardware under a new product name (e.g. Apple iTouch)

Or

Redesigning/adapting the exisiting line of products, a make-over. Imagine wacom bought fingerworks and wants to use the tech, they would also like a Wacom industrial design,on them, they would be stupid NOT to redesign and stop the current production.
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